Dear Thinkers:

We live in trying and testing times, with a lot of noise and information being hurled, which is why there is no better time than a clarifying and thoughtful conversation with historian and journalist Anne Applebaum (Anne Applebaum), built around her September 14 Atlantic article, “MAGA Is Making the World Safe for Corruption.”

Tim and Anne had an extremely enlightening conversation that focused on a question Anne wrote about in her article: What does it mean to say the United States is undergoing a genuine regime change, and what does that change look like when it is exported abroad?

Tim opened by asking whether the article was really describing regime change at home, with a state refreshed by elections and guided by some notion of national interest giving way to overlapping oligarchical and ideological clans. Anne described a coalition of actors who have never before controlled the federal government: those bent on destroying the administrative state, Christian nationalists, white supremacists, and tech and crypto oligarchs. While they have different agendas, they share one project, which she called a revolution.

Below are some high-level themes that emerged during the conversation (which is worth watching in its entirety above):

Extraction as the organizing idea. Tim argued that these clans treat the U.S. as a zone of extraction, and that the same logic naturally extends to every other country. Anne agreed, noting that for oil, gas, mining, crypto, and tech interests, foreign states are simply obstacles: the EU as a regulator, Brazil as a government that might restrict a social media platform. Anne also pointed out that foreign policy is increasingly run by businessmen with personal ties to Trump rather than by diplomats bound by ethics rules.

Canada as a case study. Anne laid out a coordinated pattern when it comes to the U.S. government’s posture toward Canada: constant demeaning of Canadian sovereignty, MAGA influencers whose business model runs on outrage, open encouragement of Alberta separatism, and punitive tariffs that make little sense for Americans. She likened the two-track approach, normal diplomacy alongside support for movements that undermine a country’s sovereignty, to Bolshevik foreign policy.

Who resists, and why they’re resented. Both Tim and Anne noted that the Bolsheviks didn’t think the state was real, and neither do today’s American clans. Historically, the people who resisted were often defenders of unglamorous ideas: constitutions, states, the rule of law. Canada’s Mark Carney may be modeling a response by doubling down on sovereignty and building ties with Australia, Ukraine, and the EU. Tim suggested that those who have sold out their own country come to resent leaders like Carney and Zelensky who haven’t, much as Putin resents Zelensky.

Civilizations, not countries. Anne noted that the more sophisticated figures in the administration talk about a world divided into civilizational spheres of influence, where a dominant power imposes its will on its neighbors. Tim connected this to Putin’s turn toward “civilization” language around 2011-2012, which was used to deny the Russia-Ukraine border. When you believe in civilizations, Tim observed, you stop believing in states.

Tim closed by asking what a dramatic midterm victory might make possible. Anne cautioned that even a big win would be only one step, not the end of the story. Her top hope is that Congress would start playing its constitutional role: using the power of the purse, asking hard questions about State Department activities abroad, and launching a serious national conversation about regulating tech and AI. Tim added that Congress could also run investigations that change the atmosphere and help Americans see what is happening.

As you can tell, there was a lot to this conversation — and I hope you’ll watch, enjoy the conversation, and share it with anyone who might be interested. There is a lot here to think about, and I think you’ll learn a great deal from Anne and Tim’s exchange. And, as Tim noted at the end, take some time and read Anne’s work. You’ll be better and smarter off for it.

Thanks, as ever, for being part of this community of thinkers.

Victor